I’m a recovering intelligence officer. I’m always a recovering intelligence officer for one trauma or another. And I’ve had the benefit, the pleasure, the honor to apply a lot of those skills I use in defense of our nation in the commercial section and in the commercial world as well, rising all the way to chief operating officer of a company that I thought was pretty obscure.

Whether I’m a nation state targeting data, whether I’m a criminal enterprise targeting data, or a transnational organization targeting that, that data is valuable. And while it’s valuable to me, there is a negative externality to the people that I’m taking it from as well. It’s not a victimless crime, right?

When I think about being on a red team, I take a systems thinking approach. And if I want access to your CEO’s computer, if I want access to your engineer’s plans, I look at it from a systems perspective. And when I do that again, this is the kind of dastardly side of things, right?