Whether I’m a nation state targeting data, whether I’m a criminal enterprise targeting data, or a transnational organization targeting that, that data is valuable. And while it’s valuable to me, there is a negative externality to the people that I’m taking it from as well. It’s not a victimless crime, right?

Anybody ever watch storage wars?
You can go on the dark web and buy drives like you were buying a storage unit. “I’ll give you a thousand dollars for that storage unit”. I know there’s got to be a couple thousand bucks worth of stuff in it. Your data out there is the same way.

When I think about being on a red team, I take a systems thinking approach. And if I want access to your CEO’s computer, if I want access to your engineer’s plans, I look at it from a systems perspective. And when I do that again, this is the kind of dastardly side of things, right?